It is quite insane to believe human beings have a free will. Well perhaps
insane is not the right word. Is it insane in this day and age to believe the
world is flat?, or that the Sun revolves around the Earth? Well if it is, then
people who believe we have free wills are insane, but I’d prefer to refer to
them as simply being stupid.
Oh, that’s not to say I blame them for their stupidity. Of course not, for
since everything is predetermined, noone has a say over how intelligent or
stupid one is. In fact there seems to be a certain advantage in their
maintaining their stupid insistance that they have free wills. Its kind of
like how little kids prefer to believe there really is a Santa Claus, and it
really is kind of cruel to try to ruin their pleasant delusion. Funny, how we
have an institution called Christmas that has as one of its major aspects the
perpetuation of delusion in our young ones.
Anyway, I don’t mean to spoil your pleasure if you believe you have a free
will. I would like to understand why this belief is so important to you. I
mean, it really is a kind of arrogance, like the belief once held by many
people that the Earth is the center of the Universe.
But, really, we have a situation where about 99.99999% of the human population
is suffering under the delusion that what we think and feel and say and do is
under our control. Of course, if this were really the case then we would all
be very intelligent and successful and happy, etc. all of the time.
Oh, right, some of you deluded souls would be quick to plead "we don’t have
full control, but we do have some control!" Right. Like a rock has some
control over its flight as its thrown.
So who can we blame for having most of us suffer under the delusion that we
humans have a free will? Certainly we can’t blame God, because His will is
just as predetermined as is ours. In other words, just as all of our thoughts
and acts originate in the eternal past, so do God’s.
Now some of your religious neanderthals might scream at this point "hey, but
God is impotant, all powerful…He can do whatever He wants. Oh really? I’m
sure you’ve heard the question that asks; if God is all powerful, can He create
a rock so big that even He can’t lift it? Hum….My question would be could
God destroy Himself. Of course if He could that would end all claims to His
being Eternal.
But we have strayed. Mankind is at present suffering from a collective
delusion that we have free will, and its really sad because it sets rich
against poor, black against white, tall against short, stupid against
intelligent, Americans against most of the rest of the world, etc. etc, etc.
I mean, were humankind to get over our collective insanity, we would recognize
that whatever is dividing us is really what we should be fighting, not
ourselves. But enough of the political sermonizing.
Here’s some religious sermonizing. Religion is about getting back to God.
Somehow it appears that we, moreso than, it seems, all of the other species of
life on the planet, have strayed from what we arrogantly refer to in lower life
forms as instinct- namely a really strong bond with God, or intelligence, or
whatever it suits you to call Him or it. I mean when we believe we have a
will separate from Gods’ we by this act separate ourselves from Him.
But its not our fault of course! I mean, if we really had free will we would
will our selves not to make mistakes like believing we have free wills.
Wanna know my take on it? well I think alot of guys refuse to understand that
free will is a myth because they don’t want to offend the women, who, don’t
seem to be able to accept this truth as readily as do men. Mind you, I’m not
knocking women.. they do seem to have a keener instinct, or intuition than we
do, but this isn’t about that. I mean, I think that when a guy tries to
explain to a woman that free will is impossible, a woman will begin to think
"well that means nothing we do matters, and she’ll get all teary eyed and the
guy, in order to keep getting laid, perhaps, will say "oh no, Im just
kidding… we do have free wills, and what we do does matter, lets’ go to bed."
And that would be that.
Again, I do love women, but it seems we men have been in the thinking game alot
longer than they have so understanding the impossibility of free will would
come easier to us. Just as understanding what a crying child wants would, of
course, come easier to most women. Please don’t accuse me of generalising,
because the whole of psychology, sociology, anthropology, etc is based on
generalizing. Of course there are exceptions, but thats besides the point.
Anyway, Wanna know what mankind’s next leap of conciousness will be? You
guessed it,… we will all someday overcome the delusion of free will and live
much more happy and healthy lives as a result. Well, I really am just
guessing. It could be that we continue to retain our delusion of free will and
continue blaming ourselves and each other for everything, and sooner or later
we will just all destroy ourselves and everyone else. Problem solved.
Death. I don’t mean to change the subject, but whats all this dislike of death
about? I mean, presumably we are dead, or at least not alive, into the eternal
past, and once we die, we’ll remain dead into the eternal future. so does it
really matter if we live or die? No. Reincarnation? Seems like another
story, like Adam and Eve, etc. Maybe we do reincarnate, but why would it have
to be on this planet. There’s an eternity of space out there to explore.
I do digress. Free will, the ultimate delusion. Mother nature does love her
deception. She causes us to believe the earth is flat, and here’s another one.
If you were to have asked someone last century whether or not our world was in
motion they would have considered you insane for asking. I mean, do you feel
the earth moving they would say with consumate arrogance and stupidity. Of
course we now know that our earth is hurtling through space , along with the
rest of our galaxy at the rate of millions of miles per hour, ( or something
like that). Yes mother nature does love her deceptions.
Unfortunately 99.99999% of us are not intelligent to understand that free will
is impossible and I’m not intelligent enough to know how to get them to
understand this truth. I mean, imagine trying to tell a two year old that
Santa is just a figment of his little imagination. Waaaahhh. He is too
real… he is too reall. Hard to reason with that.
On to Christians, Jews, Moslems, Buddists, and Hindus. A good bunch of people
generally speaking, leaving aside the inquisition, etc., but really they have
done a really good job in perpetuating morals and values that, unfortunately
our present day world doesn’t like to abide by much any more. But, alongside
all of the good they have done, and continue to do, aside from scaring people
with the threat of eternal damnation if they don’t agree with them, the
unfortunate thing about this lot is that they prefer delusion to reason. I
mean they are like perpetual two year olds clinging to their belief in Santa
Claus. You can’t reason with them, so they maintain their delusion and the
world stays in a state of blame.
they probably will get the armageddon their hoping for, if for no other reason
than so they can say, I told you so. Well. if the world stays stuck to its
delusion that we have free wills and are therefore quite right in attributing
cause, and blame, and punishment, etc. on ourselves and each other, I don’t
have the power to stop it.
I mean, if I did, I would. If I were God, I’d do away with this whole pain
thing. I mean, who needs it. Of course some stupid masochist will argue- but
you cant have pleasure without pain, its impossible. Hah. It’s just as
possible to spend your entire life in the sunlight and never experience
darkness as it is possible to have pleasure without feeling the pain.
Pain and pleasure really is what its all about, but that is another story.
Free will, what a concept. I chose to eat vanilla ice cream instead of
chocolate. Oh really, and did you also decide to prefer the taste of vanilla
to chocolate. No, Im not going to get into explaining the logic of why free
will is impossible. If people are too stupid, or brainwashed to understand,
that’s the way it will have to be. There is, again, a price to be paid for
that, but that too is another story.
Have you tired of reading this stuff yet. If what I’ve written seems
unpleasant to you, you might want to ask yourself why you keep reading. Well,
you keep reading because something inside you is causing you to do so.
Actually, I’m getting tired of writing this stuff. It would be so much easier
if humankind just acknowledged that this planet Earth has really never been
very friendly to us. How about we all put our heads together, think really
hard, and blow it to smitherines thereby freeing our souls to explore more
pleasant parts of the universe. I hear Venus is pretty cool.
Im serious. It could be that we just choose, theres that word again, we were
compelled to choose this planet as our home to our disadvantage. Kind of like
we took a wrong turn. Well, maybe our religious friends got the part about
Earth finally becoming a paradise right and all will turn out well in the end.
Which reminds me. People are fond of saying you can’t have pleasure without
pain while in the same breath extolling the virtues of a Heaven that is
pleasant beyond pleasure. You mean on Earth you can’t have pleasure without
pain, but in heaven you can. Oh. Maybe you can explain that one for me.
Free will. The ultimate delusion. My fate is so predetermined that as much as
I try to stay on subject I keep vearing. OF course, if I reallly had a free
will, I would think only pleasant thoughts and probobly not bother with the
internet much, but so it is. Oh yeah, some people say "we don’t have total
free will,
…
read more »
For what its worth I agree with you. And here is the fun part! If
there is no free will then you and I had no choice but to believe that
there is no free will
Michael Carnright
On 04 Mar 2000 15:00:54 GMT, george…@aol.com (Georgeo57) wrote:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>It is quite insane to believe human beings have a free will. Well perhaps
>insane is not the right word. Is it insane in this day and age to believe the
>world is flat?, or that the Sun revolves around the Earth? Well if it is, then
>people who believe we have free wills are insane, but I’d prefer to refer to
>them as simply being stupid.
>Oh, that’s not to say I blame them for their stupidity. Of course not, for
>since everything is predetermined, noone has a say over how intelligent or
>stupid one is. In fact there seems to be a certain advantage in their
>maintaining their stupid insistance that they have free wills. Its kind of
>like how little kids prefer to believe there really is a Santa Claus, and it
>really is kind of cruel to try to ruin their pleasant delusion. Funny, how we
>have an institution called Christmas that has as one of its major aspects the
>perpetuation of delusion in our young ones.
>Anyway, I don’t mean to spoil your pleasure if you believe you have a free
>will. I would like to understand why this belief is so important to you. I
>mean, it really is a kind of arrogance, like the belief once held by many
>people that the Earth is the center of the Universe.
>But, really, we have a situation where about 99.99999% of the human population
>is suffering under the delusion that what we think and feel and say and do is
>under our control. Of course, if this were really the case then we would all
>be very intelligent and successful and happy, etc. all of the time.
>Oh, right, some of you deluded souls would be quick to plead "we don’t have
>full control, but we do have some control!" Right. Like a rock has some
>control over its flight as its thrown.
>So who can we blame for having most of us suffer under the delusion that we
>humans have a free will? Certainly we can’t blame God, because His will is
>just as predetermined as is ours. In other words, just as all of our thoughts
>and acts originate in the eternal past, so do God’s.
>Now some of your religious neanderthals might scream at this point "hey, but
>God is impotant, all powerful…He can do whatever He wants. Oh really? I’m
>sure you’ve heard the question that asks; if God is all powerful, can He create
>a rock so big that even He can’t lift it? Hum….My question would be could
>God destroy Himself. Of course if He could that would end all claims to His
>being Eternal.
>But we have strayed. Mankind is at present suffering from a collective
>delusion that we have free will, and its really sad because it sets rich
>against poor, black against white, tall against short, stupid against
>intelligent, Americans against most of the rest of the world, etc. etc, etc.
>I mean, were humankind to get over our collective insanity, we would recognize
>that whatever is dividing us is really what we should be fighting, not
>ourselves. But enough of the political sermonizing.
>Here’s some religious sermonizing. Religion is about getting back to God.
>Somehow it appears that we, moreso than, it seems, all of the other species of
>life on the planet, have strayed from what we arrogantly refer to in lower life
>forms as instinct- namely a really strong bond with God, or intelligence, or
>whatever it suits you to call Him or it. I mean when we believe we have a
>will separate from Gods’ we by this act separate ourselves from Him.
>But its not our fault of course! I mean, if we really had free will we would
>will our selves not to make mistakes like believing we have free wills.
>Wanna know my take on it? well I think alot of guys refuse to understand that
>free will is a myth because they don’t want to offend the women, who, don’t
>seem to be able to accept this truth as readily as do men. Mind you, I’m not
>knocking women.. they do seem to have a keener instinct, or intuition than we
>do, but this isn’t about that. I mean, I think that when a guy tries to
>explain to a woman that free will is impossible, a woman will begin to think
>"well that means nothing we do matters, and she’ll get all teary eyed and the
>guy, in order to keep getting laid, perhaps, will say "oh no, Im just
>kidding… we do have free wills, and what we do does matter, lets’ go to bed."
> And that would be that.
>Again, I do love women, but it seems we men have been in the thinking game alot
>longer than they have so understanding the impossibility of free will would
>come easier to us. Just as understanding what a crying child wants would, of
>course, come easier to most women. Please don’t accuse me of generalising,
>because the whole of psychology, sociology, anthropology, etc is based on
>generalizing. Of course there are exceptions, but thats besides the point.
>Anyway, Wanna know what mankind’s next leap of conciousness will be? You
>guessed it,… we will all someday overcome the delusion of free will and live
>much more happy and healthy lives as a result. Well, I really am just
>guessing. It could be that we continue to retain our delusion of free will and
>continue blaming ourselves and each other for everything, and sooner or later
>we will just all destroy ourselves and everyone else. Problem solved.
>Death. I don’t mean to change the subject, but whats all this dislike of death
>about? I mean, presumably we are dead, or at least not alive, into the eternal
>past, and once we die, we’ll remain dead into the eternal future. so does it
>really matter if we live or die? No. Reincarnation? Seems like another
>story, like Adam and Eve, etc. Maybe we do reincarnate, but why would it have
>to be on this planet. There’s an eternity of space out there to explore.
>I do digress. Free will, the ultimate delusion. Mother nature does love her
>deception. She causes us to believe the earth is flat, and here’s another one.
> If you were to have asked someone last century whether or not our world was in
>motion they would have considered you insane for asking. I mean, do you feel
>the earth moving they would say with consumate arrogance and stupidity. Of
>course we now know that our earth is hurtling through space , along with the
>rest of our galaxy at the rate of millions of miles per hour, ( or something
>like that). Yes mother nature does love her deceptions.
>Unfortunately 99.99999% of us are not intelligent to understand that free will
>is impossible and I’m not intelligent enough to know how to get them to
>understand this truth. I mean, imagine trying to tell a two year old that
>Santa is just a figment of his little imagination. Waaaahhh. He is too
>real… he is too reall. Hard to reason with that.
>On to Christians, Jews, Moslems, Buddists, and Hindus. A good bunch of people
>generally speaking, leaving aside the inquisition, etc., but really they have
>done a really good job in perpetuating morals and values that, unfortunately
>our present day world doesn’t like to abide by much any more. But, alongside
>all of the good they have done, and continue to do, aside from scaring people
>with the threat of eternal damnation if they don’t agree with them, the
>unfortunate thing about this lot is that they prefer delusion to reason. I
>mean they are like perpetual two year olds clinging to their belief in Santa
>Claus. You can’t reason with them, so they maintain their delusion and the
>world stays in a state of blame.
>they probably will get the armageddon their hoping for, if for no other reason
>than so they can say, I told you so. Well. if the world stays stuck to its
>delusion that we have free wills and are therefore quite right in attributing
>cause, and blame, and punishment, etc. on ourselves and each other, I don’t
>have the power to stop it.
>I mean, if I did, I would. If I were God, I’d do away with this whole pain
>thing. I mean, who needs it. Of course some stupid masochist will argue- but
>you cant have pleasure without pain, its impossible. Hah. It’s just as
>possible to spend your entire life in the sunlight and never experience
>darkness as it is possible to have pleasure without feeling the pain.
>Pain and pleasure really is what its all about, but that is another story.
>Free will, what a concept. I chose to eat vanilla ice cream instead of
>chocolate. Oh really, and did you also decide to prefer the taste of vanilla
>to chocolate. No, Im not going to get into explaining the logic of why free
>will is impossible. If people are too stupid, or brainwashed to understand,
>that’s the way it will have to be. There is, again, a price to be paid for
>that, but that too is another story.
>Have you tired of reading this stuff yet. If what I’ve written seems
>unpleasant to you, you might want to ask yourself why you keep reading. Well,
>you keep reading because something inside you is causing you to do so.
>Actually, I’m getting tired of writing this stuff. It would be so much easier
>if humankind just acknowledged that this planet Earth has really never been
>very friendly to us. How about we all put our heads together, think really
>hard, and blow it to smitherines thereby freeing our souls to explore more
>pleasant parts of the universe. I hear Venus is pretty cool.
>Im serious. It could be that we just choose, theres that word again, we were
>compelled to choose this planet as our home to our disadvantage. Kind of like
>we took a wrong turn. Well, maybe our religious friends got the part about
>Earth finally becoming a paradise right and all will turn out well in the end.
>Which reminds me. People are fond of saying you can’t have pleasure without
>pain while in the same breath extolling the virtues of a Heaven that is
>pleasant beyond pleasure. You mean on Earth you can’t have
…
read more »